City Words
#Understanding
No games today, travel day...Dreams: I'm driving in a fast, low slung car, on a curving road-really fast!...I wake up...I'm offered a fruit, red, like a nectarine, told, "It's unique, the first!"...and around me are baskets of produce being delivered..."these are really good!" a voice informs me...I wake up...the fruit becomes trick!...thinking to riff on Joseph Campbell's take on myths, a youtube, I search up: where do myths come from?...aand, where do dreams come from?...aaand, notice in the search drop down alternates: Robert Graves myths iconotropy pied...one of my old searches...
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In Robert Graves' mythography, iconotropy is the deliberate, subversive reinterpretation of ancient ritual icons or artwork to fit a new religious system, usually transitioning from matriarchal to patriarchal. [1, 2]
The Judgment of Paris & The Apple
Graves applied this concept to the famous myth of the Judgment of Paris, where the Trojan prince awards a golden apple to Aphrodite. He argued that this story is an iconotropic inversion of an original matriarchal scene: [1, 2]
The Traditional Myth: Paris is the judge, and he awards the apple to Aphrodite. [1]
Graves' Interpretation: The male-dominated narrative reversed the true meaning of the icon. In the original cult ritual, it was the Goddess (or the Love-Goddess) who presented the apple to Paris. [1, 2]
The Symbolism: The apple represented the Goddess's love, but it was purchased at the price of the hero’s life, serving as his fatal passport to the Underworld. [1, 2]
🎶I'm dieting, have one last nectarine in the fridge, likely the underpinning of my second dream...nevertheless, Marianna Moore, it's a "go figure"...with the searched up Paris story...that story triggers the epics, Illiad, Odyssey...it's a foundation scene...in both interpretations, old and new...aand, Graves is an interpreter...Joseph Campbell too...in his clip, he relates that a girl came to him with a dream, asking him to interpret it...dreams always need interpreting?...and he denies he is a dream expert, but she tells him, and she goes on about the dream...it has owls, a cave...and he sees those as mythographic...behind our normal dreams, are older ones that resemble, are, myths...he says...
🧐
https://youtu.be/GzYsi3SV1bY?is=QAX_4uFddsLwCd_F
✨️For Joseph Campbell, myths don't come from a single culture or historical event; they originate from the human subconscious and biological body. He famously described myths as "public dreams" and dreams as "private myths," stemming from the same deep realm of human experience, imagination, and psychological archetypes. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Campbell posited that mythology originates from two primary sources:
The Unconscious Mind: Myths are inspired, not literally invented. They bubble up from the same pre-conscious, mystical level of the mind that produces dreams. [1, 2]
The Physical Body: He argued that myths originate from "the conflicting urgencies of the organs of the human body." Basic human impulses—such as survival, hunger, and the erotic drive—create internal conflicts. Mythological imagery and symbols were designed to harmonize and coordinate these bodily energies so humans could live fruitful lives. [1, 2]
🎶hmmph...under standing...Hercules holding the Earth on his shoulders...apples...
✨️Hercules holding the Earth on his shoulders...apples...
This refers to Hercules’ famous Eleventh Labor. Tasked with retrieving the immortal Golden Apples of the Hesperides, Hercules had the Titan Atlas fetch them. While Atlas was away, Hercules momentarily took the massive burden of holding up the heavens (or the Earth) on his shoulders. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Atlas returned with the apples but tried to trick Hercules into holding the sky forever. Using his wits, Hercules asked Atlas to take the sky back for just a moment so he could put some padding on his shoulders. Atlas set the apples down and took the burden back, allowing Hercules to grab the fruit and complete his labor. [1, 2, 3]
🎶a side by side by side...nectarine, apple, golden apples...my dream, search coincidence...the last, a wonder!...splitting "understanding" made me think of Hercules holding the Earth...and then came to mind the apples...the golden apples trick...Paris was tricky with prize apple...a looksee:
✨️Paris apple trick Hercules apple trick Eve apple trick
These "apple tricks" refer to famous mythological tales of deception, temptation, and bribery. In each story, the apple acts as a powerful symbol of discord or desire. [1, 2, 3]
The Paris Apple Trick (The Judgement of Paris)
The Trick: At a divine wedding, the goddess of discord (Eris) tossed a golden apple inscribed "For the fairest". Three goddesses—Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite—claimed it, causing chaos. Zeus forced the mortal prince Paris to judge who was the most beautiful. [1, 2, 3, 4]
The Bribe: Each goddess bribed Paris. Hera offered power, Athena offered wisdom, and Aphrodite offered him the most beautiful woman in the world (Helen). Paris gave the apple to Aphrodite, triggering the decade-long Trojan War when he took Helen away from her husband. You can read more about it on the Judgement of Paris Wikipedia Page. [1, 2, 3]
The Hercules Apple Trick (The 11th Labor)
The Trick: Hercules had to retrieve golden apples of immortality from the Garden of the Hesperides, which were guarded by a dragon. Hercules tricked the titan Atlas (who was holding up the sky) into fetching the apples for him. [1, 2, 3]
The Turnaround: When Atlas returned, he offered to deliver the apples himself to get out of holding the heavens. Hercules played along, asking Atlas to take the sky back for just a second so he could adjust his cloak. Atlas agreed, and Hercules ran off with the apples. Read the full account of the labor on the Apples of the Hesperides Wikipedia Page. [1, 2]
The Eve Apple Trick (The Garden of Eden)
The Trick: In the biblical story, the serpent tricked Eve into eating the forbidden fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The serpent promised that eating it would make humans "like gods." Eve ate it and offered it to Adam, leading to their expulsion from Eden. [1, 2, 3]
The Symbolism: The fruit is never explicitly called an "apple" in the Bible; it was generally referred to simply as "fruit." However, due to a play on words in the Latin translation, it was widely depicted as an apple by later artists. [1, 2]
Would you like to explore other famous mythological tricks, or perhaps dive into different historical symbols and their deeper meanings?
🎶for sometime...wait...one more...my second dream had a curio- the red fruit was unique, like the first...
✨️In mythology and ancient religion, "first fruits" represent the sacred offering of the season's initial yield to a deity. This act was performed to ensure continued agricultural fertility, honor creator gods, and express profound gratitude. [1]
Ancient mythologies are filled with distinct celebrations and stories surrounding these inaugural harvests:
Ancient Greece: Offerings were known as aparchai. During the Eleusinian Mysteries and festivals like the Proerosia, farmers brought portions of their early grain yields (barley and wheat) to sanctify and fund the temples of Demeter and Persephone. This honored their mythology, which explained the changing of the seasons and the cyclical return of plant life. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Celtic Mythology: The festival of Lughnasadh (or Lammas) celebrates the first fruits of the grain harvest. Rooted in Irish myth, it was established by the master-craftsman and sun god Lugh to honor his foster mother, Tailtiu, who died of exhaustion after clearing the plains of Ireland for agriculture. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Roman Mythology: Honored Saturn (god of agriculture and time) and Ceres (goddess of the harvest). Mythologically, they taught mortals agriculture; in return, the first fruits of the threshing floor and wine press were offered to them as a token of civilization's bounty. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Near Eastern Tradition: Detailed extensively in ancient texts, the Bikkurim (or first-fruits offering) was a foundational rite in Israelite tradition. Farmers brought their initial seasonal bounty (including figs, pomegranates, and dates) to the temple to recount their foundational mythology and historical covenant with the divine. [1, 2, 3]
If you are interested in exploring this topic further, I can provide more details on:
• The myths of Demeter and PersephoneHow Lughnasadh is celebrated in modern traditionsThe symbolic meaning of first fruits in different belief systems
🎶fump...there was a curio in the first dream too...driving fast...
✨️driving fast, barely in control, in a dream
Dreaming of driving fast and barely in control usually reflects your subconscious processing of waking stress. Psychologists and dream researchers often view vehicles as a metaphor for your personal agency, meaning this dream can point to feelings of overwhelm, rapid life changes, or a general sense that events are moving too fast.
Common variations of this dream and their general interpretations include:
The Stomping Brake: Straining to press the brakes but still moving forward is a classic stress signal. It often happens when you feel a lack of control or an inability to slow down your internal clock.
The Backseat Driver: If someone else is driving recklessly, it could signify situations where you feel others are making choices against your best interests.
No One at the Wheel: This can represent dissociation or feeling like you're on autopilot and being carried along by external circumstances.
Looking into how these symbols apply to your waking life—such as identifying areas where you feel powerless or overwhelmed—can sometimes help resolve the anxiety behind these recurring or vivid dreams.
🎶stomping...yep...backseat...yep...no one...yep...I have a bunch more!...but in this dream I was expert, like setting dream record for going fast thru bend in road...a consider, is that everything I dream, has a lifetime of stories and such to draw from..."I dream" ...that's a pause...where do dreams, myths, come from?...
:)
DavidDavid
